Keeping It Civil

S3:E9: Glenn Loury | Economics, Race, and Racial Discrimination

In this conversation with Brown University economist Glenn Loury, Josh and Henry discuss his intellectual journey, the strengths of neoclassical economics, his opposition to affirmative action in higher education, and how he thinks about persistent racial disparities.

S3:E8: Steven Smith | Reclaiming Patriotism in an Age of Extremes

Steven Smith is a political philosopher at Yale. His most recent book, “Reclaiming Patriotism in an Age of Extremes,” makes the case that patriotism should be restored as a guiding civic value. In discussing his book, Josh and Henry cover his notion of “enlightened patriotism,” the necessity of teaching patriotism in schools, and the challenge of balancing patriotism and cosmopolitanism. They also discuss the crucial distinction Smith draws between patriotism and nationalism.

S3:E7: Khalil Muhammad | Understanding the Past and Present of Race and Crime in America

The relationship between race and crime is a central part of the American story. In this week’s episode, Josh and Henry talk with Khalil Muhammad, the Ford Foundation Professor of History, Race, and Public Policy at Harvard’s Kennedy School. They discuss the contemporary uses of history in public discourse, his award-winning book, “The Condemnation of Blackness,” the uses and misuses of crime statistics, and the need for prosocial interventions to combat community harms.

S3:E6: Andrew Sullivan | A Conversation With the Writer and Public Intellectual Andrew Sullivan

Andrew Sullivan has been a fixture in American intellectual life for over thirty years. Josh and Henry covered several topics with him, including the role of the essayist, his journey from traditional print journalism to Substack, his thoughts on the foundations of a liberal society, the potential consequences of the Supreme Court overturning Roe v. Wade, his fear of intellectual orthodoxy in society, and more.

S3:E5: Lara Bazelon | Law Professor, Writer, and Advocate on the Criminal Justice System and Her New Book on Motherhood

Josh and Henry have a wide-ranging conversation with Lara Bazelon, the Director of the Criminal & Juvenile Justice and Racial Justice Clinics at the University of San Francisco School of Law. We discuss her thoughts on systemic racism, her work representing indigent clients, “progressive prosecutors,” and her new book on motherhood, “Ambitious Like a Mother: Why Prioritizing Your Career is Good for Your Kids.”

S3:E3: H.R. McMaster | Civic Education as the foundation for Strategic Confidence in American Foreign Policy

H.R. McMaster is a retired United States Army Lieutenant General who served for over thirty years, including as National Security Advisor from 2017 to 2018. Henry and Josh begin their conversation with him by discussing his background, his recent book, “Battlegrounds,” and his argument against what he calls “strategic narcissism” on the part of U.S. military and political leadership. They then discuss some of his experiences in Iraq and his suggested solutions for various twenty-first century challenges. McMaster argues that civic education and a better knowledge of history is essential to rebuilding trust in American civic institutions and restoring the confidence in leadership necessary to implement effective foreign policy with public support. Please note that the conversation occurred in Fall 2021 soon after the U.S. military withdrawal from Afghanistan.

S3:E2: Jonathan Rauch | Discussing the Constitution of Knowledge

America’s free and self-governed society was founded on a written constitution, but as Jonathan Rauch argues – following James Madison – the United States relies on an “unwritten constitution,” a body of norms, customs, and traditions, the habits of a self-governing people. For Rauch, a liberal democratic society depends also on the common dedication to pursuing knowledge through free speech, as well as the discipline of searching for and testing facts through the promotion of viewpoint diversity and the rigorous exchange of ideas. It is only in this way that knowledge and truth will prevail over cancel culture and the purveyors of outrage.

S3:E1: Paul Carrese and Carol McNamara | Relaunching the Conversation

We speak about the relaunch and the importance of the free and open exchange of ideas inherent in the blend of liberal arts and civic leadership education that students can find if they study at ASU with the School of Civic and Economic Thought and Leadership. This exchange of ideas serves as the foundation for the Keeping it Civil podcast.

Season 3 Keeping It Civil Trailer

In each episode, hosts Henry Thomson and Josh Sellers interview public intellectuals, scholars and authors with diverging views on pressing issues in America today. Topics range from questions around intellectual orthodoxy to racism, to individual liberty and free speech. This podcast is a partnership between the School of Civic and Economic Thought and leadership and Arizona PBS at Arizona State University.

S2:E8: Walter Russell Mead | Is the liberal order crumbling or functioning as we should expect?

Walter Russell Mead and Duncan Moench greatly disagree on whether the First World War was a murky battle between two equally imperfect and imperialist forces. They follow up this discussion with a prescient conversation that anticipates the attempted revolt in January, the enormous need for telecommuting to ease the country's housing crisis — and the extent to which American education can be remade in a more democratic manner. (Their conversation was originally recorded in the spring of 2019. This will be the last episode of Keeping It Civil. Thank you for listening, it's been a good run!)